GDR Forum Index
Podcast Podcast
Dev Dev Logs
Search Search
RSS RSS
Register Register
Log in Log in
Reply to topic GDR Forum Index -> Game Developer's Refuge -> Development Log - Jungle Mayhem Page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Hard Rock
Contributor

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 238

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Played it for a bit, looks cool! A bit too hard for me, but I imagine it gets easier as you practice. I like the ability to just load in an applet, makes it very easy to just quickly test rather then have to download and set stuff up. Always a bonus.
_________________
Hard Rock
[The Stars Dev Company][Twitter]
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gil
Developer

Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to add that it feels a bit slow right now. Because of the high difficulty and high HP of the enemies, you're running around strategically, trying to set up moments to fire your shots, but the AI is so good that it forces you to keep moving.

This is good. Movement feels spot on. That being said, I feel like I want faster shots with more punch to fit the movement. Bring the mayhem into it. What you need to do right now is go play some Contra. It's so over the top the other direction of where you're going that some of that gameplay will seep into your brain and put your game in perspective. I'm not saying you should go the way of Contra, but that it will provide a good perspective change.
_________________
PoV: I had to wear pants today. Fo shame!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
IMakeGames
Contributor

Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 499
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another update! Again available at http://planet-wars.net/junglemayhem/applet/.

I implemented proper power-ups. One to boost your damage, one to speed up your movement, one to replenish some health and some to give you points. This is not the whole story to the powerups, though: in the finished game, you should be able to buy permanent weapon, speed and health boosts, which raise your starting percentages. The powerups you pick up ingame are only temporary and are gone when you die or restart the game. I haven't decided yet on what the currency to buy permanent upgrades will be... points maybe.
The HUD is also improved and shows all your stats nicely.
Another enemy, the shotgun-dude, is also finished. It shoots 3 bullets at once instead of just one, so he's major dangerous. In the current setup, you'll only see him if you manage to get to the last wave in area 3 though... and that's hard! :-)
The current setup is way more beginner-friendly. The third area is still imba, though!
Some nice polishings are in place, like the area- and stage-transition effect, which fades to black and then back with pixelated diamond-shapes. I think it looks cool and gives it another retro-touch.
A couple of AI improvements are also in. In the older versions, enemies sometimes predicted your jump completely wrong. This made the whole game exploitable. Fixed!
And of course, bugfixes, bugfixes, bugfixes along the way...
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Alex
Developer

Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 1159

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

feels good. I got to wave 5 on level 3. 2325 points.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
IMakeGames
Contributor

Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 499
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to say thank you for all your feedback so far! I haven't replied to everybody's comments until now, but I seriously took them into consideration and it helped me a lot.

Quote:
The autoaim works but it would be more fun to aim yourself.

Quote:
It might be fun to be able to duck to avoid enemy bullets without having to give up your current position. Maybe this way the player could even take cover behind half-height objects (crates/barrels) and fire from there.

Both good suggestions and I had both of them in mind. Unfortunately, they suffer from the same decision I made: the game needs to be Android compatible. Not having auto-aim would require an analog pad on touch-based devices and those are just horrible.
As it is now, I have four buttons (left, right, jump and shoot). Again, introducing a "duck"-button wouldn't work too well on touchscreen-based devices. My older Android-game also had 4 screen-buttons and some people already complained! A fifth button would probably set them on fire! ;-)

Quote:
I must say the speed with which you turn around raw ideas is pretty impressive.

Well, thank you, kind sir! :-)

Quote:
Bullets are too hard to see, there's a reason most games use orange or pink or whatever

Good catch! Done.

Quote:
The area feels a bit small.

I tried to remedy that with the player being introduced to a new area after every couple of waves. That should help create a feeling of "bigness".

Quote:
I'd like to add that it feels a bit slow right now. Because of the high difficulty and high HP of the enemies, you're running around strategically, trying to set up moments to fire your shots, but the AI is so good that it forces you to keep moving.

I'm in a bit of a balancing dilemma with this. If I make the player's shots more powerful, like killing enemies in 1-2 shots, the close-combat enemies wouldn't stand a change at all. I'd have to spawn a lot more of those for them to be competitive. And that would again make them form a conga-line again, as there are only a couple of different behaviors.

I played some Contra on a web-emulator. Yes, Contra goes into the complete other direction. Normal enemies are killed by one hit. What I didn't like about it was that you're constantly "fighting the screen-border". You know that enemies will come in from the edges of the screen, so you soon start to preemptively shoot all the time, killing of enemies right when they spawn. If I also had the "one-hit-kill" mechanic, players could just position themselves at one of the spawning points at the beginning of each wave and kill off any enemy appearing there. I want to avoid that.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gil
Developer

Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, like I said, Contra is the opposite. That's not the way to go either.

I'm sure you'll find the correct balance :)
_________________
PoV: I had to wear pants today. Fo shame!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
IMakeGames
Contributor

Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 499
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm working on not-so-fun stuff like menus. Now, I've worked with a fair share of GUI-libraries, including WPF, Swing, AWT, WinForms, the Android GUI, GuiChan and a bunch of others. But I've never seen a GUI library as strange as LibGDX's. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if there was some clear documentation about it. All I got to work with are half-finished one-sentence method-descriptions and a few simple examples. But... I'm slowly figuring it out. :-)

Here's a screenshot I took with my workphone's crappy camera:

It shows the Statistics-screen on the Laptop and on my smartphone.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
IMakeGames
Contributor

Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 499
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a bit quiet lately, but that's because University and the rest of life got in the way... but I still managed to get something done, like a few menus:

Also, another shooting enemy type and some new levels.
You can try it out again here:
http://planet-wars.net/junglemayhem/applet/
As this game is starting to take more and more shape, I'm also getting more confident that it can really work out and be a fun experience! Gooood feeling! :-)
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sirocco
Moderator

Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 9433
Location: Not Finland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... menus have a nice old-skool flavor that always sits well with me. Nice n' simple, too.
_________________
NoOP / Reyn Time -- The $ is screwing everyone these days. (0xDB)
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
sonrisu
Moderator

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 4985
Location: Silicon Valley!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tried to play this multiple times. Dunno if it's just me, but in Safari it has never worked. I just get a white frame, shows that it's loading LWJGL, then back to white frame - and nothing.

:[
_________________
loomsoft :]
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sirocco
Moderator

Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 9433
Location: Not Finland
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, now this is looking much better. I got to the part where it told me to hit the next stage. After that, (and one more enemy) the game stopped, as I guess I had finished off all the waves of enemies.

The parallax in the background is a nice touch. The jumping still feels a little bit angular, but that's nothing deal-breaking. I like how you introduce new enemies in a gradual, controlled way.
_________________
NoOP / Reyn Time -- The $ is screwing everyone these days. (0xDB)
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
IMakeGames
Contributor

Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 499
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I got to the part where it told me to hit the next stage. After that, (and one more enemy) the game stopped, as I guess I had finished off all the waves of enemies.

I'm not sure I understand. If you just hit the start/continue button on the player screen, the game should start with the first area of stage 1. If you beat all waves, a "GO" sign should appear and you can walk to the right to area 2. And then area 3. Afterwards it should say "Stage complete". But the game isn't over then. After a few seconds, the screen should fade to black and fade back in in the first area of stage 2. Didn't that happen?

Quote:
The jumping still feels a little bit angular, but that's nothing deal-breaking.

Could you elaborate a bit more on this? I experimented quite a lot with the jumping-"physics" and this was the best I could come up with.

Quote:
I like how you introduce new enemies in a gradual, controlled way.

Yeah, that should be an important factor in the player's heads. I want them to think: "Just one more stage, maybe I get to see a new type of enemy!" And of course to increase difficulty over time.

Quote:
Tried to play this multiple times. Dunno if it's just me, but in Safari it has never worked.

As you mention Safari, are you on a Mac? Because I know that the applet doesn't work on Macs. Some kind of Java-bug it seems (http://code.google.com/p/libgdx/issues/detail?id=339). If you are on a Mac, I could package an OS X binary and upload it! :-)


In the last couple of days, a really attractive idea formed in my head. Played Half Life 2? The area(s) where you have to place auto-turrets for defense? I'm thinking about introducing something like this into the game. You can buy (not cheaply, though) turrets and they will be spawned at some location in every area. They will shoot at enemies and do some damage. Not too much, but worthwhile if you need every bit of firepower in the later levels. Additionaly, you should be able to pick them up and move them to other places. That's where a strategic element comes into play: picking good locations for the turrets. But placing them also takes time of course.
Enemies will be able to kick them over when they walk by them or with a bullet. Then you have to pick them up again so they continnue shooting. How does that sound?
The last thing I want to do is turn this into another tower defense game "with a twist". Turrets should help in later levels, but shouldn't form the core of the gameplay.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
sonrisu
Moderator

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 4985
Location: Silicon Valley!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
are you on a Mac

Yup. :]
_________________
loomsoft :]
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
IMakeGames
Contributor

Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 499
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here it is:
www.planet-wars.net/junglemayhem/JungleMayhemDesktop.zip
I hope it works for you because I have no experience in distributing a mac binary at all. :-)
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
sonrisu
Moderator

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 4985
Location: Silicon Valley!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worked fine. Although, I got to the second area, wave 2, killed everyone, and then nothing happened. Is that expected?
_________________
loomsoft :]
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
IMakeGames
Contributor

Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 499
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
lthough, I got to the second area, wave 2, killed everyone, and then nothing happened. Is that expected?

Hmm... maybe there was a gun-guy hiding somewhere? Sometimes you can't see them behind a flower or vines. And then you don't get to the next wave. Because there should be 8 waves in the second stage.
_________________
My current project: Hook'd
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
sonrisu
Moderator

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 4985
Location: Silicon Valley!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran around looking behind all the stuff. Found a gem that was hidden, grabbed it - but nothing happened. Any logs or something I can grab? I haven't tried to reproduce yet.
_________________
loomsoft :]
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
IMakeGames
Contributor

Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 499
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's kinda quiet here lately, so I put up the current version of the game.
It now has upgrades, you can save and load, a bunch of new levels and a lot of other new jazz.
Check it out:
http://planet-wars.net/junglemayhem/applet/
And for the Mac-folks:
www.planet-wars.net/junglemayhem/JungleMayhemDesktop.zip

I think I also ironed out the bug where you are seemingly stuck and the game doesn't continue to the next wave/area/stage after killing all the baddies. I play-tested it so many times already and I couldn't reproduce it... :-)
_________________
My current project: Hook'd
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sirocco
Moderator

Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 9433
Location: Not Finland
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it still stops at the 3rd area. When I get to the 3rd area, it starts the wave, and only one baddie appears (stick waving dude). I kill him, and the game essentially stops. I can still move and shoot, but the wave never progresses. I'm running the applet inside Firefox 9 on XP.

It hung in the same spot on your last version, which kinda surprised me. I was hoping to get further. I've tried it several times and it always stops at 3-1. I can leave the stage, buy some upgrades, then start the stage over again and it still hangs in that spot. Evil!

What I did get through was cool. The varied terrain actually makes you stop and think about your position before starting each wave. It's easy to get overrun.

If there's any sort of debugging info I can get you just let me know how.
_________________
NoOP / Reyn Time -- The $ is screwing everyone these days. (0xDB)
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
IMakeGames
Contributor

Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 499
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gnah!!

Big big sorry for unleashing this bug-fest to you! I tried it myself in the applet this time and... I was able to reproduce it. The bug is happening because some maps have wrong positions for the enemy-spawnpoints, making enemies spawn inside solid tiles. Then the collision detection seems to push them outwards and they fall down at the outsides of the map, into the void. Therefore you can't kill them and you can't advance further... The thing is, this only seems to affect the applet version. I suspect this has to do with latency and delta-timing as the collision detection is really dependent on the delta-time. And I further suspect that the applet doesn't get too many cpu-cycles (or whatever) and this let's the collision engine push them outside... phew...

I went through all maps again to see if there were still some wrongly positioned spawnpoints. Didn't find any anymore. I almost feel guilty for asking, but if you have the time and motivation, could you give it another try? The game should have been saved and if you hit "start/continue" from the player-screen, you should be able to continue where you left. Assuming I didn't produce another unfound bug in the loading/saving sections. If you still get stuck somehow, there's always the "select stage" button however! ;-)

edit: and no, there are no logfiles. I'm really not content with creating logfiles for games. They are either much too unprecise and don't help much or I have to bath my code in log-statements. Like in this example, a logfile that would have told me the culprit from the start would have needed to be immensely detailed. And I really don't want to call a logging-method at the beginning and end of each and every other method. :-/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sirocco
Moderator

Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 9433
Location: Not Finland
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that fixed it. Coolness.

As far as the logging thing goes, it's just another tool in the box. Sometimes it's good, other times it just gets in the way. I generally only log things that are abnormal or suspicious, and yeah it adds a fair bit to the code. I went apeshit and logged the bejeezus out of my framework when I was about halfway through developing Inimicus, and it lead me to a few areas of the code that weren't particularly sound (I'm putting that nicely). The real use beyond that, for me at least, is tracking something I think is going wonky. So I'll just drop in a call here and there in a process and monitor a few variables, or how often something is being called.

Meh. Nevermind me; rambling :)

But yes, bug fixed. Good job.
_________________
NoOP / Reyn Time -- The $ is screwing everyone these days. (0xDB)
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lachie Dazdarian
Newbie

Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Europe
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the gameplay and the graphics style, but on the other hand, it doesn't seem to be suitable for the violent nature of the game. I don't know. Maybe the jungle should look more rugged and dangerous, than hippy-dippy.

Reached stage 2, wave 3 on my first attempt.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
IMakeGames
Contributor

Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 499
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for playing it! :-)

Quote:
I love the gameplay and the graphics style, but on the other hand, it doesn't seem to be suitable for the violent nature of the game. I don't know. Maybe the jungle should look more rugged and dangerous, than hippy-dippy.

True, but that's all I got... :-/ The graphics are not done by me, but are already existing ones from a freely available sprite-pack. I don't have anything else to work with...

Quote:
Reached stage 2, wave 3 on my first attempt.

Wow, that's quite far for the first try! Looks like I have to hammer out hundreds of levels to keep the players occupied... or make the game harder. It seems like people who are familiar with the jump'n'run genre tend to breeze through the levels quite easily. I hope I can balance all this well...
_________________
My current project: Hook'd
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BadMrBox
Developer

Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 1201
Location: Beyond return
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the new menu. I do believe that you need more kinds of enemies.
_________________
My Blog | I take steroids for my bad knee. Now I can kick a smart car across the Walmart parking lot![/size]
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
IMakeGames
Contributor

Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Posts: 499
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadMrBox wrote:
I do believe that you need more kinds of enemies.

You think 8 different types isn't enough?

I'm currently working on boss fights, so YAY for variety! :-)
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply to topic GDR Forum Index -> Game Developer's Refuge -> Development Log - Jungle Mayhem Page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Use this link to get a Sign-On Bonus when you get started!

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. All comments owned by their respective posters.
phpBB code © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group. Other message board code © Kevin Reems.