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BadMrBox
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was up to watch the conference (0500 in the morning) and damn if i didnt regret it. I dont want to be negative but damn if the event didn't show suicidal tendencies.
The starting line up of games is pathetic.
    1.2. Switch. $50. For a hutpy durpy 2 player game that you dont even look at screen to play.
    Just Dance 17 a port.
    Skylanders something Another port.
    Legend of Zelda Techincally a port lol.
It's pretty much a disaster. Zelda is the only game worth attention on that list and had I owned a WiiU i would buy it for that console instead.
So far the rest of the year doesn't look to much better. Except for the Mario game and Arms the rest are remakes or rereleases.

I have no idea why they did the whole motion control thing again. I would have preferred if they hadn't, It would have made the console a helluva lot cheaper.
As it stands now the accessories are pricey as hell.
    $70 for a pro controller. Why in the hell is it more expensive than a dualshock 4?
    $80 for the joy-cons. Without the bloody Joy-Con Grip.
    $? for the Joy-Con grip.
    $? for the joy-con straps.
    $30 for the Joy-Con Charging Grip so you can charge the damn joy-cons without having them connected to the console. It's not included with the console.

Thats $110 + whatever the straps will cost for one full set of joy-cons. It's way to much. And what the hell... $70 for the pro controller? Upscaling the price so people will consider buying the joy-con's instead much?
    Paying for an online subscribition from Nintendo? Doubtful they have the ability to provide an online service worth it. At least friendcodes are gone.
    Voice-chat via an cellphone app. What?


I will get the console later when there's more interesting games announced for it (Metroid, F-Zero, New stuff) or when they release the Lite/XL version.
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PoV
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, price is the biggest issue with the system. Oddly, the cost of the system itself is fine though. It's just accessorizing (and buying games) sucks right now.

I'm tempted to wait for a used copy of Zelda before I play it.
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Sirocco
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if CEMU is far enough along.... hmmmm....
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Diablo
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the CEMU thing isn't viable for playing the new Zelda, don't worry too much, I noticed POV was thoughtful enough to order a second Switch to share with all of us. . . . . . .
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Ren
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PoV wrote:
Yeah, price is the biggest issue with the system. Oddly, the cost of the system itself is fine though.


It's a reasonable, if not particularly competitive, price for the technology. The point is, why was that tech included even? The joycons undock and have motion controls in them. I just wonder what the point is of that. I personally just want the cheapest way to play the new mario when it comes out.

I would quite like to see a 2ds-type revision that is just the machine and pro controller that you plug in to your tv at a cheaper price point. Its nice when companies have multiple bundles so you can choose based on how enthused you are by the new system.
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Sirocco
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peripheral pricing has been pretty absurd since the PS2 era, and only seems to be getting worse. I wholly understand that peripherals have always been treated as high-profit entities, but there's a difference between padding and gouging.

I'm leaning toward the latter here.
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Ren
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair, the PS4 controller still costs 45. That is way too much. Theres a similar problem with the joycons in that it is over-engineered. Theres an accelerometer inside to detect tilt, and it has a touchpad on the front. I have literally never used these features in almost 2 years of owning one.
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Sirocco
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ren wrote:
To be fair, the PS4 controller still costs 45. That is way too much. Theres a similar problem with the joycons in that it is over-engineered. Theres an accelerometer inside to detect tilt, and it has a touchpad on the front. I have literally never used these features in almost 2 years of owning one.


Totally agree. The closest thing I've seen to decent functionality was a few games that treated the touchpad like two buttons (left/right). Some games try to use it for map navigation but it always feels clunky, like the sensitivity is too low or there's a lot of noise in the data coming off the pad. And don't get me started on the light bar that I can't switch off (thank you, electrical tape!)

And now with so many games requiring you to press L3/R3 to run, you end up obliterating your thumbsticks in about 1-2 years :/
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sonrisu
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought you could disable the light bar? :]
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Sirocco
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sonrisu wrote:
I thought you could disable the light bar? :]


Nope. You can dim it, but that's it. I play in a totally dark room so that little bit of light is awfully distracting.

I always put electrical tape over my light bar.
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PoV
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ren wrote:
It's a reasonable, if not particularly competitive, price for the technology. The point is, why was that tech included even? The joycons undock and have motion controls in them. I just wonder what the point is of that.

FWIW, thanks to phones, accelerometers today are extremely cheap. With the exception of the rumble, you could probably acquire the parts to build something with much the same feature set as a joycon for about $10, and that's even without taking volume in to consideration. In general, I doubt Nintendo's costs are more than $30 for both joycons (probably $20), but R&D + Manufacturing costs become less an impact as they make more units. Removing feature X or Y wouldn't likely affect the price more than $1. These prices are all Nintendo. It's where they decided to make their profit, instead of on the hardware itself.
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Ren
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a confession: of all the pointless tech in the PS4 controller, the light bar is my favourite :). I like how it indicates which character your controller is connected to during multiplayer. I dunno, its a cheap and fun feature.

PoV wrote:
FWIW, thanks to phones, accelerometers today are extremely cheap. With the exception of the rumble, you could probably acquire the parts to build something with much the same feature set as a joycon for about $10, and that's even without taking volume in to consideration. In general, I doubt Nintendo's costs are more than $30 for both joycons (probably $20), but R&D + Manufacturing costs become less an impact as they make more units. Removing feature X or Y wouldn't likely affect the price more than $1. These prices are all Nintendo. It's where they decided to make their profit, instead of on the hardware itself.


I see what you're saying here, although I question those prices. Still, cutting down on excess technology surely reduces rnd costs and manufacturing costs on top of the cost of components. If they want to have high profit margins at a lower price point, cutting out the crap is a good start.

I'm not sure why they've gone this route, the Wii's strength is that it was cheap and cheerful, with a unique gimmick. Switch seems like it will be expensive but portable, not my favourite combo. I have no idea how the market will react to this thing. Whats the consensus around here, do you think it will sell?
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sonrisu
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nintendo has been on this path since the Wii. I think maybe even perhaps a little tiny bit with the GameCube. Realistically, I see this selling well for families with children. Personally, I never bought a Wii U. There's also nothing truly compelling here with the Switch either.

Zelda looks great, but I know what I'm going to get. More open world-ish Zelda. Zelda is Zelda and nothing really changes across the installments. I'm going to get bored with the open world parts like I do with every other open world game. And then I'm going to get bored with some of the dungeons like I do in literally every Zelda game post LttP.

Other than that, every other software title is meh. Perhaps it's just me in that I find not a lot of fun in 3D platfrormer titles. They are more of a chore than actually fun for me.

Anyway. What was I talking about? Yes. People with kids will definitely buy this. Everyone else probably for Zelda, Mario, or holdouts for Metroid (me).

[edit] Also, as an indie dev I don't see the point. Nintendos online stuff is such a joke. Hopefully it's better with this platform. Ever bought a game in the eshop on a DS. Wtf? I just have to leave it open? Please. Every other place I can download software is a million times better.

I still plan on getting one though. :]
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PoV
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny thing, I don't really see the Switch as a family system, but rather as a response to mobile games being less than great. It's capable of being a family system, but that's not the purpose (per se). It has a lot to prove, but the core idea is strong, much stronger than Nintendo has been in a long time.

That said, I have a handful of friends that I have occasionally played 3DS games with. Monster Hunter was the big one, but a couple of us played Pokemon XY too. I'm looking forward to seeing Towerfall, Nidhogg, and Samurai Gunn on the Switch though, things we would have to carefully plan a video-game night around (instead of our typical board-game nights).

Ren wrote:
I'm not sure why they've gone this route, the Wii's strength is that it was cheap and cheerful, with a unique gimmick. Switch seems like it will be expensive but portable, not my favourite combo

It's worth noting the Wii launched for $250 USD, which after inflation is about $300 USD (same price as the Switch). It did have a pack-in game though.
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Sirocco
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Funny thing, I don't really see the Switch as a family system, but rather as a response to mobile games being less than great.


I'd go further and say mobile games just plain suck. They suck because the controls suck. People make do, but the most prevalent gaming platform of all time is arguably one of the worst because it has an interface issue that has proven (thus far) impossible to fix.

So, yeah, there's something there. The short battery life kinda blows, but they had the difficult job of making a handheld that was powerful enough to do household gaming. Remember OUYA? No one actually wants to sit on their couch and throw mobile games on the big screen all day. Gotta aim higher to hit that mark ;)

I'm not sure if I'll bite on this one. New Zelda plus that game I can't mention makes things tempting.
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Ren
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PoV wrote:
It's worth noting the Wii launched for $250 USD, which after inflation is about $300 USD (same price as the Switch). It did have a pack-in game though.


And its major competitor famously launched at $599 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6LbzP-AJRQ ). They undercut their competitors by trading horsepower for gimmicks. No undercutting this generation. Perhaps if they had release it in 2013?

Sirocco wrote:
Remember OUYA? No one actually wants to sit on their couch and throw mobile games on the big screen all day.


Poor OUYA. Most people forget how difficult it was to get an indie game published on xbla and psn back then, that was the whole point of the system. It would probably have seen moderate success if those companies hadn't relaxed their guidelines before it released. By the time it hit the market, it seems people had forgotten the point of it.
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sonrisu
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going after mobile market? Doubt it will be successful in that regard. That thing is too huge (wide) to use mainly as a mobile gaming device. The only people I see "mobile gaming" on a wide-like-Switch display is children--on iPads.

Bad battery life. Too big. Games will run at way lower performance. Nice try, but it's not gonna fly for that purpose.

Nintendo is not going to fix the poor quality of 'mobile' gaming with that behemoth. :]

[edit] There is DS. And Vita. Both didn't succeed (at making 'mobile' "better"). Switch won't either. Not with 5 year old games being a big marketing push. Who HASNT played Skyrim already? :]
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Diablo
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does Nintendo still make good money on the DS? Are they going to cannibalize some of that revenue stream with the Switch (i.e. the Switch is portable, guess I don't need to buy DS games anymore!) ?
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sonrisu
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not unless it can play DS games? :]
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ren wrote:
Most people forget how difficult it was to get an indie game published on xbla and psn back then, that was the whole point of the system.

I actually wasted a year+ and about $10k working on a project that ultimately Microsoft said no to (after leading me along, ugh). This was before PSN was a thing (I think it was announced while I was working on the project).

So yeah, I wont forget any time soon. ;)
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PoV
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sonrisu wrote:
Going after mobile market? Doubt it will be successful in that regard. That thing is too huge (wide) to use mainly as a mobile gaming device. The only people I see "mobile gaming" on a wide-like-Switch display is children--on iPads.

That's the thing: I don't think they're going after mobile either. Back when I worked on GameBoy games, we used to refer to the market as "portable" or "handheld" gaming. As someone that quite enjoyed NES and SNES era games, the GameBoy Advance felt like a continuation of that era. We had a lot of great games that were on par if not better than the originals (the later Castlevania Metroidvanias, Megamans, etc). Since mobile game exploded, that mindset of "handheld/portable" gaming has been a bit of an afterthought. On the plus, more people today are playing games (even if they are with sub-par mobile controls). I think the Switch is very-much something new, but it has a lot of parallels with the old/forgotten portable/handheld gaming market. In time the 3DS (and what little PS Vita gaming there is) should be encapsulated by the synergy of home and console play. Let the young kids have the iPad games (they lack patience). The Switch is for the mature gamer that wants the flexibility to take a game on the go.

Honestly, I don't see this failing. Given a few years, I expect the numbers to catch up to the PS4 (~50 million, 3DS has ~60 million).

I will say this first year is going to suck (ports and only a few originals, shitty pricing), but I'm betting this time next year things will look much better for Nintendo.

* * *

That said, if you're someone with a PS4, you're probably well aware that your Nintendo Switch isn't going to match it in power. But a lot of games don't need the power of a PS4. And some games are going to make a lot more sense on a Nintendo Switch than your PS4. Long story short, any game where the visuals are the selling point, of course you're better off with the PS4 version. But any game where multiplayer (be it online or local), or even grinding plays a significant role, I think Nintendo Switch should be preferred. The latest-and-greatest Call of Duty... yeah whatever, go play it on your PS4 (or Xbox, *spits*).

One of the launch window games is Disgaea 5. I hope I've made my love of the series clear (and my slight frustration having to buy a PS4 just to play it). Had the Switch been around, I would have definitely grabbed that version instead. It would have meant I could have spent one of those shitty plane rides (Toronto/Chicago to San Francisco) or train rides (Buffalo NY to Boston) grinding characters or some-such.

That said, Persona 5, they haven't announced a Switch port yet (they did announce a PS3 port way back but not sure if that's still a thing), but that is a game I'd probably prefer on my PS4. It's a game with a mostly linear story, and not likely much grinding. It's the sort of game that you want to give it 100% of your focus because of the storytelling.

Frankly, the new Zelda doesn't need to be Nintendo Switch game. It is because Nintendo owns the property, and the Switch will be their best system, but had gaming been more open and general, the PS4 would have been a better place to play it (for me anyway).

What I'm getting at: games with *ANY* tedium (grinding, customizing) are perfect if they can be taken on the go. Games that skew cinematic, like a good TV series or movie, are best on a big screen.
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sonrisu
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure grinds games are nice to play on the go, but I don't fully buy it.... Even a fully charged DS does not last long enough to be useful on the go for me for the kind of play sessions I do. I regularly run out of juice when I am in a legitimate mobile situation--and that device is made specifically for that.

The switch is like half/half. If the battery life on this thing really is as bad as I hear, it's going to be ridiculous also carrying around battery packs or cables, plugs whatever just to juice it up.

Really, I know I am the wrong "mobile" demographic for this thing. That's ok. I just see it succeeding as a home console over mobile console. People will use the portability to continue gaming while they are on the toilet, or someone else wants the TV. :]

[edit] Ultimately, I'm just skeptical. I will be getting one. I do hope it's a big deal. I just don't see it yet. I want less plastic crap taking up space in my life, so I'm disappointed with the ridiculous amount of accessory stuff going on too. :]
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PoV wrote:
Let the young kids have the iPad games (they lack patience). The Switch is for the mature gamer that wants the flexibility to take a game on the go.


This is kind of what I am getting at here - how many people are actually into this? I noticed that one of the major selling points of the Wii U that people were talking about is that you can play it on the toilet. I don't know what people are doing in there, but I just shit and go, no need to sit around playing video games for ages. The idea of giving your kid the handheld to get the off 'the TV' was outdated by probably 10 years when the Wii U was release, thanks to crashing prices of flat screens ensuring multiple TVs per household was normal.

So with the switch you can play it on the crapper, play it on a plane (how many planes are people taking per year?), and play it on public transport. A kid can play it in the car. Is that enough use cases to sell the gimmick? I can't say yes or no because it depends on the culture in different countries.
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PoV
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it's a UK perspective. When I did a completely unscientific bit of research, I noticed that while the brits do complain about traveling, you can drive across the entire country in a mere 4 hours (about one axis anyway). I expect the time wasted while travelling isn't long enough to see portable as a big plus.

Over here in Canada/US, we are far more spread out. I live in an average city (400k population), where anything real is hours away. The nearest big city with 7 figure population is Toronto, about 2 hours away. I'm also an hour away from the US border. That's not bad, but I do have friends and places I visit ever year (Ottawa, Boston), where travel time is between 8 and 15 hours. Yes it's true some people don't go anywhere, but regular long travel isn't uncommon around here. And anything to help make the time go by is extremely desirable, even if it is just a few times per year.

I have a lot of nerdy friends, and we play stuff like Monster Hunter (similar to Dark Souls but actually rewarding #sickburn). It's a series that has been exclusively portable for a number of years (blame Japan). So between us we're super-hyped for the Switch, 'cause playing on something with good graphics (not the 3DS) is extremely desirable.

We also get together every week for a game night. Usually board games, but sometimes couch multiplayer games and other fun things (VR, escape rooms, Jackbox). Usually we're playing one big game, but ocassionally the group has to split in two, and we have 2 games on the go. The Switch for us is one more slightly spontaneous way to game, since it has the benefits of couch multiplayer, but we can play it at the game table while we wait for the other group. Real games, not shitty pared down mobile games.

Also between us in the group, we tend to attend a "nerd convention" or two. The guys often do PAX East, I do GDC, and another attends a fuck-ton of comic conventions to sell prints of his art. There are lots of lineups at conventions, and you're surrounded by people with the same game systems as you.

So sure. If you don't surround yourself with nerds, I agree you probably wont make the most of it. But if you do, it's the perfect thing.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just going to leave this here.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1343614
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